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Gunderson was hired by Segal shortly after MacDonald’s conviction and turned his attention to Helena Stoeckley. But they left a paper trail, as well as a video, as a record of their efforts. Helena was nutty enough that she could have told him that, and nutty enough to be involved. I hope our failure to chase that wasn’t-well, who knows? I hope there was nothing there, and I didn’t think we could prove it, even if it was there.ĮRROL MORRIS: Satanic cults or conspiracy?īRIAN O’NEILL: Both. I was confident we would never prove anything, if we had to prove a conspiracy, prove the DEA or the FBI was in league with somebody. He was just so willing to accept any possible explanation. But he really had Jeff’s best interest at heart, I have no doubt of that. And then he’d back off and be nice, and then he’d lose it again. If you weren’t with Ted, you were part of something else. Gunderson was a big believer that the government had mobilized to get MacDonald.īRIAN O’NEILL: Yes! But Ted was not a bad guy. And once we proved that, which would have taken a lifetime, we would thereby have come upon information which would aid Jeff’s defense. They wanted to prove that there was a conspiracy between the military and these druggies. He was the first guy to get to Helena on behalf of Jeff, back before the trial.ĮRROL MORRIS: And Beasley and Gunderson were trying to prove a conspiracy from early on?īRIAN O’NEILL: Yes. I think he did something good in the case. Wore great suits, had a nice head of white hair, spoke very authoritatively on damn near everything-sometimes with accurate information, sometimes not. Ted looked like an FBI agent in the movies in fact, I think he had worked as a consultant to the movies. Ted had found him, and Beasley was a very nice kind of a country guy who was in love with Ted. He wasn’t in-bed dying, but he was really on his last legs.
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He was screaming there was a conspiracy against Jeff at the highest levels of government, and I, Brian O’Neill, was part of it, or assisting it, because I refused to accept this claim.ĮRROL MORRIS: And Beasley went along with this?īRIAN O’NEILL: He was dying. There is no way we can prove this frickin’ thing. I told him that I believed that she was involved with the murders, but I also told him it doesn’t matter whether they are part of a satanic cult or not. Ted had come to believe, somehow, that Helena and the gang she ran with were part of a satanic cult.īRIAN O’NEILL: Yes, he was jumping up and down about it. A well-intended guy who really loved Jeff and really thought that Jeff got screwed, but he was a loose cannon. And if you don’t investigate anymore, you really don’t know what you’re looking for or what you’re doing when you’re investigating. If you’re a supervisor, you never investigate anymore. If you’re ambitious, you become a supervisor. One of my classmates told me the following is the FBI culture. Guys with Irish names who go to Catholic law schools, half of them become FBI agents. I went to a Catholic law school, so I can say this. He had been replaced by Brian O’Neill, who inherited the investigative duo of Gunderson and Prince Beasley.ĮRROL MORRIS: You inherited Gunderson from Segal?īRIAN O’NEILL: Oh yes. 1Īfter the decision by the Supreme Court that sent MacDonald back to prison, Segal finally quit.
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Terrible, terrible, terrible.” I had planned to meet him in L.A., but by my next trip out there, he was already dead. He kept saying over and over and over again, “Terrible. I could barely hear Gunderson, but he somehow conveyed through the static that he was dying and that he was trapped in various conspiracies too terrible to describe. In an era of bad telephone connections, this was among the very worst I’ve experienced. A string of nonworking numbers, and then I finally reached him-after a fashion. I tried to talk to Gunderson in 2011, just before he died. Jeffrey MacDonald was one of his first clients. Gunderson & Associates, a private detective agency. Gunderson took early retirement from the FBI in March 1979 and started Ted L. The scuttlebutt is that he was being considered for the post of FBI director, but it was given to Judge William H. He had been the special agent in charge of the Los Angeles office of the FBI. Crazy, self-serving, lost in a funhouse of his own contrivance, he is responsible for further blurring the line between fact and fiction (given that that line is blurry to begin with) rather than adding any clarity to the case. Ted Gunderson defies such easy categorization. There is a tendency to separate people into the good and the bad.